HF + 11m rig

[Punkin Head]

I know some of you guys are dual purpose ops and like both HF and CB. I would eventually like to put a mobile together that I can work both with. I will have a tuner and probably a Screwdriver antenna and just tune the 10m portion for the 11m. Do any of you guys have a mobile application that you do something similar? If so what is your setup? Trying to get some options to explore before I dive off into another several $100 or $1000 setup. I know HF rigs are usually more expensive but I cant talk on 75/80m with a Galaxy 66 lol.

Thanks for the input and suggestions. I have always been a fan of ICOM rigs but I am not above the others.

[cbsupertech]

H'lo Punkin Head!
I've found a 102" whip to be quite versatile! Tuned, of course, to see the band... A mobile HF rig, used with an antenna tuner to the whip, will be usable on many bands. I see a few the hamsters in my neighborhood run the big black tapable coil mobile HF antenna set up for the lowest frequencies, And a Good Ol' CB Whip for the higher frequencies...
My experience with the mobile all band antenna systems, is that they are basically a total compromise... but hey! a dummy load radiates too, if designed to
just my two cent's worth to get the topic rolling!
at your service,
Mike ...CBSUPERTECH...

[Punkin Head]

I havent ruled out the dual whip setup yet either lol. I know it will be cheaper that way than the screwdriver. Have one whip that will be for 40-80+/- and one for 10-40+/- The antenna system will be the easiest part of the setup. Trying to pick what rig I want is always the hardest part for me. I will be putting this in a 93 Bronco (full size OJ version not the puny Bronco II) so space isnt really an issue. It has a 351 so I could always add another alt if needed to power any "extras". I may end up with 2 radios a cb and a hf but trying to avoid having 2 if I can find something I like.

[Punkin Head]

I may get one of these coils and a 102 steel whip so I can sit on my porch and talk if I want to. HOA says no antennas but if I can take my antenna inside when I am done they cant stop me muahaha

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It works with a standard 8.5' "CB" whip for 80-10 meters. You can also use much shorter whips if you like. the coil is 8.5" long x about 1 3/8 wide. Very very well built! Not just "thrown" together! I have run 250 watts without issue. Easy to use, it has a ring that slides up and down the coil making positive contact at any point on the coil giving it continuous coverage! Just listen to your RX while you tune up or down on the coil until you hear the noise peak, then you are very close! You can tune it to an almost flat SWR. The coil itself has a 3/8 x 24 thread base so you can use it on most mobile mounts! I have compaired this antenna to many other mobile antennas with great results. And yes! You can use two of them as a dipole without a balun.
***PHOTOS AND ABOVE PARAGRAPH WERE OBTAINED FROM THE AD, I HAVE NOT USED THIS YET***

[231]

Hi Kevin,

I'd consider going out and throwing up an Imax or A99 at night and take it down when you are done. You won't need a tuner for most of 10m, 11m, 12m, or 15m bands. 17m and 20m you will and they are mediocre at best on those two bands. Much cheaper than a screwdriver and will perform better IMHO. I have a mobile set up using a Scorpion Screwdriver (6m-80m), BetterRF screwdriver controller with my Icom IC-7000. It'll work on 11m too. But if you are set on getting a screwdriver, an old DK3 Don Johnson can be had reasonably cheap and will do pretty well with plenty of counterpoise wires laid out. I have and use my Imax on several bands though, and they could be configured to set just above ground level and laid down when not in use. Just a thought.

Welcome back to the forum as well! It's good to see you.

231

[Punkin Head]

I was just thinking the screwdriver mostly for mobile application on my 93 Bronco. I am going to run wire up the down pipes on the gutters and the length of them also. Get as much as I can. I also have a Hustler 6BTV in my basement that I could tie off to the porch at night and talk and take it down and put back in the basement. I have an imax 2000 in there too. and a couple 50ft rolls of 213. But I am tossing around the idea of the screwdriver or a dual whip idea, one for like 10-40 and one 40-80 that I can use a tuner and antenna switch to jump back and fourth. As you can see by this rambling post. I am kicking around multiple ideas. Trying to get suggestions and input on what radio would be good that I can find that would hold up in a mobile that is hf and has the 11m capabilities.

[Rabbit Ears]

NICE BIRD model 43!!! Got one too!! Elements aren't cheap,....BUT worth it!!

WOW!! Nice antenna work, man!!

[Punkin Head]

NICE BIRD model 43!!! Got one too!! Elements aren't cheap,....BUT worth it!!

WOW!! Nice antenna work, man!!

I wish I could take credit for that work and Bird but I had to borrow those pics and info from the place that sells the coil. Those are examples of how they have used it. They sell those coils on ebay all the time.

[KG4KGW]

First let me begin by saying that having 11 meter and HF together is illegal. You can legally convert a CB to ham bands, but not Ham to CB. That being said, what bands do you intend to work? All HF bands are not easy to work on a mobile. The antenna size restrictions make it very hard to work 80 meters mobile. Not to mention you probably won't get heard there without a substantial antenna and some very good conditions. 20 Meters is very active in the daytime and 40 is very active at night. Those are the two bands I would focus on. If you can work 20 and 40 then you will likely be able to work 6-40 with the same antenna.

Most guys will use a 104- 108 inch stainless steel whip attached to an auto tuner to work the HF band with one antenna. 2 meters and 440 is a much sorter antenna and most rigs that have both usually have more than one connector so you run 2 antennas or more.

Your budget is going to dictate what rig and antenna setup you buy. Screwdriver antennas are expensive and honestly don't work any better than having a good tuner. Essentially the antenna is acting as a tuner as it moves up and down the coil. The lower the frequency the longer the antenna.

Working HF is very different than talking to the neighbors on 11 meters. You can work the world with a piece of doggie shock wire and a good tuner at 100w. Although you might not be able to talk to the guy 5 miles away in town. That is the nature of propagation. A vertical antenna is good for local work while a horizontal polarization is better for DXing.

If I were setting up a nice base rig operation I'd get an ICOM IC-718 for around $500 off Ebay and an MFJ 949E tuner (These are manual tuners). Hook that up to a 40 meter inverted vee and you can talk anywhere in the world you want. In a truck or car I may be more interested in a more compact radio such as the DX-70 that Alinco makes or perhaps the FT-857 by Yeasu. My personal favorite is the IC-7000, but your looking at a $1200 price tag for the radio alone. A good LDG under vehicle auto tuner runs around $350-500 depending on where you buy it and what model you desire.

The world of HF is an expensive one. I wish I could understand why we have to pay so much for something that isn't as smart as my new television. These rigs are getting better, but the prices are in the tens of thousands for the super high end rigs.

I run an FT-847 at home for all of the ham bands. I've got a stock Radio Shack rig in my truck for 11 meters. I seem to get in and out without a power mic or amplifier. I don't worry about who is keying on me since if I really want to talk to that other person so bad I can drive right to them, get out and knock on the door.

If your working 80 meters as you suggested you need at a minimum a General Class ticket. It isn't as hard as some would like you to believe. With that you can run up to 1500 watts, but you won't ever need that. My 100 W unmodified HF rig has no problem bringing in some very rare DX.

[Punkin Head]

KG4KGW I will probably just stick with 10-40 mobile after reading your post. I love ICOM rigs. My last one was an IC-7000 and I loved it, its just not in the cards for me right now to have another. Had a rough patch and had to liquidate alot of my gear. I still have my Hustler 6BTV, G5RV, coax, and tuner oh and my IC-2200 2m and j-pole. I am leaning towards an ICOM IC-718 for a base, still havent decided what for mobile yet if I get one. May hold off for another IC-7000 when I can afford it.

I have had my General Class for a few years now, I loved working HF back when I was set up and running. I enjoyed playing with stuff just to see what I could tune for an antenna. Everything from a piece of wire to a 53 ft dry van 18 wheeler trailer was used lol. I had some decent luck working 20, 40, and 75/80 nothing spectacular but enough to make me happy.

Once I do get up and running again maybe I can catch you on the air and shoot the breeze some.

Take it easy my friend and I am always taking suggestions, advice, and any info available. Can never learn to much about this hobby!

73
Kevin - N5CKC

[KG4KGW]

KG4KGW I will probably just stick with 10-40 mobile after reading your post. I love ICOM rigs. My last one was an IC-7000 and I loved it, its just not in the cards for me right now to have another. Had a rough patch and had to liquidate alot of my gear. I still have my Hustler 6BTV, G5RV, coax, and tuner oh and my IC-2200 2m and j-pole. I am leaning towards an ICOM IC-718 for a base, still havent decided what for mobile yet if I get one. May hold off for another IC-7000 when I can afford it.

I have had my General Class for a few years now, I loved working HF back when I was set up and running. I enjoyed playing with stuff just to see what I could tune for an antenna. Everything from a piece of wire to a 53 ft dry van 18 wheeler trailer was used lol. I had some decent luck working 20, 40, and 75/80 nothing spectacular but enough to make me happy.

Once I do get up and running again maybe I can catch you on the air and shoot the breeze some.

Take it easy my friend and I am always taking suggestions, advice, and any info available. Can never learn to much about this hobby!

73
Kevin - N5CKC

It sounds like you've had some very nice gear and still do! I certainly look forward to catching you on the HF bands. You can easily make a mount for a 718 in your car or truck. It is a little big for a mobile, but it would work just as well. If your going for 10-40 meters you may also want to look at the FT-900. It is a little older rig, but a very nice detachable face that is a full sized 100W radio. I'm sure you've seen them on the web. If not, check them out on ebay. I know there are at least two of them on there now for sale.

Good luck getting everything set back up and if you ever need help feel free to PM me or send me an email. Just reading around on these boards I know there are other hams here that would probably be a ready source of information and advice.

Are you a member of Law Enforcement? Just curious from the picture you have in your sig.

[Punkin Head]

I have worked in LE for 11 years as a dispatcher. Recently transfered out of dispatch into records but still cover dispatch from time to time when needed. I will check out the FT-900. I like the 100W radios, you dont need an amp with HF in my experience unless you are trying to bust through a pile up but even then a 100W rig will do it if you try long enough.

[231]

Try the stuff you already have first PH. If you are going to do a screwdriver on the mobile then why not? The question will be which one? How about I help you and suggest ones to stay away from? LOL Lil-Tarheel...small, compact, will load up 80m and the rest, but hands down the worst performing screwdriver next to the Yaesu ATAS. Try to get at least a used full sized High Sierra, or Tarheel. Top of the line would be Scorpion and Hi-Q for quality and performance (in that order). But there are others too.

If it were me, I'd sink a post in the ground, throw either of your verticals on a 5' or 10' pipe, and drop it down in the ground pipe when you want to use it at night. Take it down when done. Granted the Solarcon antennas won't do 40m...but on 10-17m the Imax will put the Hustler to shame...no question about it. Plus you won't need counterpoise wires for it to work like you will the Hustler. If you can lay out some counterpoise wires then the Hustler would be a good choice.

As far as the wire/gutters, if they are metal you are hosed. Load up the gutters! LOL I talk to guys regularly who have their dipole literally laying on their composite roof. They are able to load them up and they work well considering. Better than the attic in most cases. So you going to have to simply play with things the way you want in the order you want. See how things go.

Best of luck.

231

[KG4KGW]

I think right now he just needs an HF rig to play radio on. I've got several QSL cards from people using the rain gutters. They were metal gutters and they put a piece of plastic in a small section to separate the two sides of the house. Since yours are plastic you can just put your G5RV over into the gutter and stretch it out. Check it now and then to make sure it hasn't washed down the downspout or put some duct tape on it.

I'm sure with guys like 231 around here helping you out it won't take long to get a good solution going.

[Punkin Head]

I am going to keep picking both of yalls brains and asking about different parts that maybe not needed but help. everything really. I want to have my notebook laid out with the parts, prices, where to get them. radios, antennas. might have the rig in the prius or in the bronco and the rig could double as a base also. make a slip seat mount for it. I want to be able to get the stuff I dont have that I can throw it all together an atleast listen for a bit. But who knows i could come on in just a talking. I like the tips and pros and cons. then get to weigh out what you like and make it work for you.

I will be taking notes and hopefully by the first of the year n5ckc can be back in action. just have to round up another heil mic too.

Anyway thanks for all the info and help, its greatly appreciated and keep it coming.

[Slyguy]

For the mobile I'd look at a Tarheel screwdriver. It's going to set you back about 4 to 5 bills but well worth it. Tune any band from 80 to 10 meter. Maybe 6, cant remember. I think if you add the capacity hat you can get 160 meters. A buddy of mine has one and has excellent luck with it. Couple the right radio with it and it will tune itself. Or just use the basic controller and an SWR meter.

[721HACKSAW]

I'm primarily a base user and I've had lots of CB radios and antennas over the years, but since I've gotten my Yaesu HF radio I've discovered the real difference in a radios capabilities.
I have an export CB mobile radio in a truck that I use occasionally, but if I do replace it in the future it will be with another HF rig and antenna.
The initial cost is more, but for me it is well worth it.

[Punkin Head]

Try the stuff you already have first PH. If you are going to do a screwdriver on the mobile then why not? The question will be which one? How about I help you and suggest ones to stay away from? LOL Lil-Tarheel...small, compact, will load up 80m and the rest, but hands down the worst performing screwdriver next to the Yaesu ATAS. Try to get at least a used full sized High Sierra, or Tarheel. Top of the line would be Scorpion and Hi-Q for quality and performance (in that order). But there are others too.

If it were me, I'd sink a post in the ground, throw either of your verticals on a 5' or 10' pipe, and drop it down in the ground pipe when you want to use it at night. Take it down when done. Granted the Solarcon antennas won't do 40m...but on 10-17m the Imax will put the Hustler to shame...no question about it. Plus you won't need counterpoise wires for it to work like you will the Hustler. If you can lay out some counterpoise wires then the Hustler would be a good choice.

As far as the wire/gutters, if they are metal you are hosed. Load up the gutters! LOL I talk to guys regularly who have their dipole literally laying on their composite roof. They are able to load them up and they work well considering. Better than the attic in most cases. So you going to have to simply play with things the way you want in the order you want. See how things go.

Best of luck.

231

For the mobile I'd look at a Tarheel screwdriver. It's going to set you back about 4 to 5 bills but well worth it. Tune any band from 80 to 10 meter. Maybe 6, cant remember. I think if you add the capacity hat you can get 160 meters. A buddy of mine has one and has excellent luck with it. Couple the right radio with it and it will tune itself. Or just use the basic controller and an SWR meter.

I have been looking at the Tarheel 100A-HP and the 200A-HP and thinking if I go with the screwdriver I will get one of those. I can make a mount for it pretty easily or they actually sell mounts for different applications for the antennas. It will be going on the back of a full size Bronco so I wouldnt be going with the little one, I have plenty of room for the full size antenna. Another one that I have seen for sale used is called a DK3. I cant find alot of info on this one and I have yet to see a new one but see lots of used ones on feebay. Have yall heard of those? They are usually in the $250ish range and usually have the control box and wire harness with them just no whip. they say to buy a 102 steel whip and cut it down to 5'6".

[KG4KGW]

If you use a tuner there is no reason to "cut" the antenna.

I'm not a fan of screwdriver antennas. The fact that you are using an electric motor to tune it right off the bat leaves you with the possibility of motor failure. Then there is the fact that you have contact points within the coil that is being touched by a wheel on a small spring. This is the primary failure point for most of these antennas.

Have you checked out the OutBacker antennas? These you move a jumper from band to band. Also there is the option of the 102-108" whip and an external tuner. Sure the tuner isn't far from the screwdriver antenna, but if it did fail, you wouldn't be out of business entirely in most cases.

[231]

I have been looking at the Tarheel 100A-HP and the 200A-HP and thinking if I go with the screwdriver I will get one of those. I can make a mount for it pretty easily or they actually sell mounts for different applications for the antennas. It will be going on the back of a full size Bronco so I wouldnt be going with the little one, I have plenty of room for the full size antenna. Another one that I have seen for sale used is called a DK3. I cant find alot of info on this one and I have yet to see a new one but see lots of used ones on feebay. Have yall heard of those? They are usually in the $250ish range and usually have the control box and wire harness with them just no whip. they say to buy a 102 steel whip and cut it down to 5'6".

PH,

The DK3 is the original Don Johnson screwdriver antenna. The DK3 design is what all of the manufacturers have followed...with the exception of Hi-Q who encapsulated the coil assembly and actuating it slightly differently. I've owned a Hi-Q and would never own another...even though it's a decent antenna. Coil size is everything, and the skinny design don't usually do as well as the larger coil designs...generally speaking. If you can pick one up at a reasonable price and it works, it would be a viable option for you. Take a small battery or power supply and touch the wires on the terminals and see if it extends/retracts.

[Punkin Head]

Ok, I think I know what I am gonna get piece by piece between now and the 1st of the year. Icom IC-718, Tarheel Screwdriver 200A-HP with the SDC-102 Programmable Controller. I will make a mount that will go in the Reese Hitch for the Tarheel and I will make a mount for the house that the same mount will go into to use it there too. I may even put a hitch on the PriusC and rig the IC-718 with a quick connect bracket so it can also be easily swapped between Bronco, House, and Prius.

Will still do some other antenna ideas for the house too with wire, my g5rv, gutters, and hopefully a 6BTV flagpole eventually.

Now just have to convience my wallet to release some money to start picking up these things lol.

[Slyguy]

Sounds like your on your way to a dream mobile. For me at least. Better get the IC-7000 though.

[Punkin Head]

Sounds like your on your way to a dream mobile. For me at least. Better get the IC-7000 though.

Oh if its in the cards once I get the radio order going I will. But its easier to come up with $700 than it is $1300 lol. I wish I would have never had to sell my last one but thats life. I cant wait to get it all and get back on the airwaves. Then I can start trying to reach everybodys receive.

[str8stroke]

Good looking rig. How are you charging your batter? I may have missed it. I have a set up sorta like yours, and charge it all with a solar panel. Keeps the battery nice and full with no need to lug a charger & find a power outlet.
This is if I want to take it out of my mobile say for Field Day. I carry a small folding table from walmart and it works well. You can even hook it to your mobile antenna if you want. I jigged up a mount from the trailer hitch for my Sirio Gainmaster so I can work 10 meters like a CHAMP on field day. Then I throw up a NVIS using one leg on the gainmaster. So far some I have made some outstanding contacts. It takes a few minutes to set up but I can take the whole thing down super fast when its time to go. I know a gainmaster is a bit much, but I also use the same rig for my butternut 6 bander. I can be up and running super fast. Just need a good tuner for the butternut, with limited ground radials I find it harder to tune. But its for portable temporary ops anyways.

Thought that may give you a few ideas? I run the mars/cap mod Ft-450D. It will tune most of the butternut, some of the NVIS and ALL of the gainmaster.